Suspension Mods

[g_bear89]

Hey guys,

A few weeks ago I went auto crossing with one of my friends in his car and I got hooked. I have a 2000 Mustang Gt Convertible with no suspension mods. So I have $1000 for just suspension mods, but I am not sure what parts will make the most impact in an auto cross course. Can any of you guys recommend me a list of some parts that I should definitely get with a $1000 budget, excluding the cost of labor.

Thanks

[Enorbit3]

subframes, springs, shocks, tires.

EDIT: slightly over $1k, but a good foundation.
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_65&products_id=1247

[g_bear89]

OH yeah, my friend is going to give me some Kuhmo V710s...so tires are good to go

[Enorbit3]

i would wait for Blind to post up in here. he knows his shit.

[Nicksbluestang]

Nitrous and be done with it. :look:

[g_bear89]

Nitrous and be done with it. :look:

Actually, thats already on my list of things to get LOL..well, not that I am going to use that in auto cross, as im sure it would probably be of no advantage and it probably is prohibited to use eitherway...i simply want a quick surge of power for whenever I need it LOL..not planning on spending too much on go fast parts hahaha

[Blind]

OH yeah, my friend is going to give me some Kuhmo V710s...so tires are good to go

do NOT run those.


I've been autox'ing for several years, usually do 15-20 events a year, and I run street tires. I run good ultra high performance summer street tires (bridgestone potenza re-01r, or potenza re11) but they are still street tires.

R-comps teach bad habits, it's a very bad idea to try and learn what your car car do with them!



Want the best advice? Do nothing, your car can do more than you can right now.

I used to run with a guy that had a 260k mile, completely bone stock 1995 mustang gt convertible, running street tires. He was always within 1/2 second of me, I have a few parts, but the biggest difference is he had a lot more years of experience than I do.


there's an event in santa barbara on march 28th, you should go! I posted up details on it in the race events forum here. I can give you pointers and show you the ropes in person if you come out, in addition they have SCCA certified instructors on hand that will ride along and give you tips inside the car.

Only after you have a few events under your belt, should you even consider doing any mods, IMO.

[g_bear89]

do NOT run those.


I've been autox'ing for several years, usually do 15-20 events a year, and I run street tires. I run good ultra high performance summer street tires (bridgestone potenza re-01r, or potenza re11) but they are still street tires.

R-comps teach bad habits, it's a very bad idea to try and learn what your car car do with them!



Want the best advice? Do nothing, your car can do more than you can right now.

I used to run with a guy that had a 260k mile, completely bone stock 1995 mustang gt convertible, running street tires. He was always within 1/2 second of me, I have a few parts, but the biggest difference is he had a lot more years of experience than I do.


there's an event in santa barbara on march 28th, you should go! I posted up details on it in the race events forum here. I can give you pointers and show you the ropes in person if you come out, in addition they have SCCA certified instructors on hand that will ride along and give you tips inside the car.

Only after you have a few events under your belt, should you even consider doing any mods, IMO.

Haha alright, so not even install some springs to the car?? And I know what you mean about those tires, they mask all the mistakes of a crappy driver LOL. I just want to run them in a couple of events to notice the difference between those and street tires =D. And I would love to attend that event in SB, but its a bit far from me right now. I am up here in Berkeley, so I've only been able to attend a couple events in Oakland, and in Marina.

[Blind]

the oakland and marina events are ok, the layouts are pretty limited in terms of speed though, check out www.americanauto-x.com they run some nice events up there.

I wouldn't bother with springs yet unless you want to do it for appearance, but a set of bilstein or koni SA shocks will be a good investment that you can grow into.

Most lowering springs make a mustang handle WORSE because the spring rate is too soft for the amount of drop that they give, and stock shocks can't handle drop springs.

[Ogbatman]

Panhard Bar
FL subframs
H&R springs
CC plates

U will feel it...:nod:

[Enorbit3]

his stock shocks wont be able to dampen the H&R springs properly. i suggest shocks/struts instead of the panhard bar.

[Ogbatman]

his stock shocks wont be able to dampen the H&R springs properly. i suggest shocks/struts instead of the panhard bar.

He can get those to for a good price from Ken.

[Blind]

Panhard Bar
FL subframs
H&R springs
CC plates

U will feel it...:nod:

the only thing you'll feel from that is a crazy rough ride and snap oversteer from the increase in the amount of bind in the stock 4 link rearend by adding the panhard bar.

[Ogbatman]

the only thing you'll feel from that is a crazy rough ride and snap oversteer from the increase in the amount of bind in the stock 4 link rearend by adding the panhard bar.

Really my ride wasnt rough with this set up...:whoknows:

[Blind]

Really my ride wasnt rough with this set up...:whoknows:
how many track days have you done with it like that?

[Ogbatman]

how many track days have you done with it like that?

none it was on my 96GT DD.

Now my 01 bullitt is a different story but that has everything from MM.

[Blind]

I did one track day with the PHB on my notch, with MM HD Adj. lower control arms, stock upper arms, bilsteins, etc etc, not where it is today, but back then I had a few good parts.

I was hanging the ass out any time I lifted throttle while turning, and any time I applied throttle while turning the rear would *hop* to the outside. I pulled into the pits, remove the bar, went back out, and left the car that way for the past 3 years.

PHB should not be done on a car that is still 4 link, you can run a PM3L (poor mans 3 link - google it) by removing one of the upper arms, but that requires a stronger arm than stock, with stiffer bushings, and reinforcing plates on the upper control arm mounting torque box or you can tear shit up.

[Ogbatman]

:whoknows: Everyone has a different driving style.

[g_bear89]

soo.. Some FL subrames, springs, shocks, struts, and CC Plates would be some good first mods?..how about some front/rear sway bars??

[Ogbatman]

soo.. Some FL subrames, springs, shocks, struts, and CC Plates would be some good first mods?..how about some front/rear sway bars??

Yeah that would b a good start.

I dont know how the Panhard Bar is by its self cuz when I got mine I had TQ arm with it and it turned my car into a different animal...:drool:

[Enorbit3]

soo.. Some FL subrames, springs, shocks, struts, and CC Plates would be some good first mods?..how about some front/rear sway bars??

get the maximum motorsports starter box. its in my first post. it has all that except the FL SFC. its a good foundation and u can add more parts later.

[g_bear89]

get the maximum motorsports starter box. its in my first post. it has all that except the FL SFC. its a good foundation and u can add more parts later.

Is that kit worth the $$ though? Or would I be able to get all these parts cheaper if I buy them some where else separately?

[RedRyder]

Hmm... I'm using the MM panhard bar with a 4 link setup. I noticed less snap oversteer on the street.

[Enorbit3]

IMO its a pretty good deal. i got my H&R springs from Maximum, then i got my bilsteins on Ebay. i spent about $850. i still need teh CC plates and which are about another $200. i re-used my stock isolators but u might want to invest in some polyurethane to avoid the NVH. i get some noise when i drive over bumps and shit like that. with the same setup on my old car, i used new isolators and didnt get the noise i am now.

[Ogbatman]

Is that kit worth the $$ though? Or would I be able to get all these parts cheaper if I buy them some where else separately?

U can shop around for the parts. If u want its up to u. But the kit is worth it if u have the money.

[Enorbit3]

side note: the kit comes with Maximum's own springs, while i opted for the H&R race spring. its up to you. i would suggest giving Maximum a call and talkin to them about what u use the car for primarily and they can go over the benefits and trade offs of the suspension.

the techs over at MM are friendly and knowledgeable. and the tech support/advice is free.

[Blind]

soo.. Some FL subrames, springs, shocks, struts, and CC Plates would be some good first mods?..how about some front/rear sway bars??

swaybars basically never need to be upgraded, all a swaybar does is remove grip from that half of the car when the stiffness of it is increased, the stock ones are huge on a mustang.


springs rates for a convertible need to be softer than a coupe, because the chassis just isn't as stiff.

For good subframe connectors, look at wolferacecraft.com for their thru-floor subframes, really the only way to stiffen up a convertible.


I would recommend hitting the track with the car STOCK, then improving on areas where you feel the car is lacking, throwing a bunch of cobbled together parts isn't going to make the car drive better.

The starter box kit from MM is great, but it isn't needed to get out to an auto-x day and learn car control.

[g_bear89]

swaybars basically never need to be upgraded, all a swaybar does is remove grip from that half of the car when the stiffness of it is increased, the stock ones are huge on a mustang.


springs rates for a convertible need to be softer than a coupe, because the chassis just isn't as stiff.

For good subframe connectors, look at wolferacecraft.com for their thru-floor subframes, really the only way to stiffen up a convertible.


I would recommend hitting the track with the car STOCK, then improving on areas where you feel the car is lacking, throwing a bunch of cobbled together parts isn't going to make the car drive better.

The starter box kit from MM is great, but it isn't needed to get out to an auto-x day and learn car control.
Hmm, makes sense to have softer springs for a convertible. So which set of springs would you suggest? I was leaning towards the H&R Race Springs, but now that doesn't seem like it would be a good choice, would it? LOL.. btw, around how much does the install for FL subframe connectors cost?

[5litrarag]

I was leaning towards the H&R Race Springs, but now that doesn't seem like it would be a good choice, would it? LOL..

I have them and they kick ass..... with a set of Bilsteins the ride is perfect.

[Blanco32v]

im running h&r race springs, bilsteins all around, and mm subframe connectors. I love the car allover again. Also do the front endlinks and sway bar bushings. i was not expecting the nice difference they made for being about $50 dollars in parts.....

[Blind]

Hmm, makes sense to have softer springs for a convertible. So which set of springs would you suggest? I was leaning towards the H&R Race Springs, but now that doesn't seem like it would be a good choice, would it? LOL.. btw, around how much does the install for FL subframe connectors cost?
If I were you and you're set on buying a set of springs/shocks, I would call up maximummotorsports tech line and talk with them.

The H&R race is a great spring, the drop isn't too far, the spring rates are great, I just don't know how well they would ride and work in a convertible vs a coupe, what's great for somebody else may not work out for you.

Depends on the shop, but usually around $100 to install the MM flsfc's.

[5litrarag]

Once I get my Oinker going again I'll be glad to offer a ride.... But I will say that Enorbit can vouch for the ride being nice since its why he decided to do the same setup on his Mach1. ;)

[Blind]

bilsteins/H&R race are what I have on my fobra and I love it (though I haven't hit the track with it yet, march 28th can't get here fast enough!), but it's a coupe with IRS so it's hard for me to compare.

my old combo was bilsteins with Steeda Comp springs, and it was a bit softer, but I was faster than every mustang at the last dozen auto-x events I went to by at least 4 seconds per lap, which is a LOT

[Enorbit3]

i love my H&R Race and Bilstein HD setup. cant go wrong with that. 5litrarag put me on the game when he took me for a ride in his white car. once around the block i was sold. have had that setup on my last 2 mustangs.

[Killer281Saleen]

My saleen rides like SHIT!!! I don't get it. Saleen springs all around, 04 cobra struts up front with bbk insulators all around, drag shocks out back, upper and lowers.. And still fells like crap...

[Blind]

My saleen rides like SHIT!!! I don't get it. Saleen springs all around, 04 cobra struts up front with bbk insulators all around, drag shocks out back, upper and lowers.. And still fells like crap...
your rear end is binding with uppers and lowers, if you want to drag race that's fine. Only the lowers should be changed out, and they shouldn't have poly at both ends, one side needs spherical bearings, the uppers should be left stock so they can flex.

but your car rides like shit because of the control arms and drag shocks.

[Blanco32v]

My saleen rides like SHIT!!! I don't get it. Saleen springs all around, 04 cobra struts up front with bbk insulators all around, drag shocks out back, upper and lowers.. And still fells like crap...

maybe its the drag shocks? I noticed much much more of a difference from the shocks than the struts. I know nothing of those springs.

[Enorbit3]

My saleen rides like SHIT!!! I don't get it. Saleen springs all around, 04 cobra struts up front with bbk insulators all around, drag shocks out back, upper and lowers.. And still fells like crap...

dont forget the 100 shot. :look:

[5litrarag]

bilsteins/H&R race are what I have on my fobra and I love it (though I haven't hit the track with it yet, march 28th can't get here fast enough!), but it's a coupe with IRS so it's hard for me to compare.

my old combo was bilsteins with Steeda Comp springs, and it was a bit softer, but I was faster than every mustang at the last dozen auto-x events I went to by at least 4 seconds per lap, which is a LOT

Wow that is a lot... but yeah I seriously think this combo is the best setup this side of a matched coilover setup. I made it a point to ride in a lot of different cars before I chose and even though I had never rode in a car with the Race springs I figured the high rate would give a smooth and tight ride along with the Bilsteins. I was right on the money. :)

[g_bear89]

alright, thanks guys..well it looks like i will end up with some H&R race springs, Bilstein shocks and struts, MM CC plates, and MM FL SCs...at least that is what I have planned for now. I am now just looking around for prices to see who has them the cheapest LOL

[StriderTacticaL]

subframe connectors, H&R's, Bilsteins, and hawk pads. Done.

[Enorbit3]

alright, thanks guys..well it looks like i will end up with some H&R race springs, Bilstein shocks and struts, MM CC plates, and MM FL SCs...at least that is what I have planned for now. I am now just looking around for prices to see who has them the cheapest LOL

dont forget to check ebay. i got my bilsteins from there.

[Blind]

don't be afraid of used, springs and bilsteins don't really get affected by miles, and even if a bilstein blows out completely it's $50/shock to rebuild

[g_bear89]

cool, ill be keeping my eye on ebay and craigslist then LOL..if you guys see anything hit me up =D LOL..

[red fox]

Hows about getting the brakes upgrated? I have the cobra brakes on my fox, and I'm thinking of going with a brembo kit.

[superslothguy]

i love my MM coilovers they made a word of diffrance for me try em out

[Blind]

coilovers require a lot of other parts to work right, MM recommends the entire grip in a box kit prior to going coil over.

[5litrarag]

coilovers require a lot of other parts to work right, MM recommends the entire grip in a box kit prior to going coil over.

Exactly why I decided I wanted to replicate that setup.... I mean before MM came up with their C/O setups, the grip in a box set was on the old MM LX track car... and it was setting records and generally kicking ass wherever it went.

[g_bear89]

Hows about getting the brakes upgrated? I have the cobra brakes on my fox, and I'm thinking of going with a brembo kit.

PM Sent