Tt or supercharger?

[t76mach]

I'm undecided what to get, I found a tt setup on cl for 3,500 dunno if it's any good or what. Or just stick with a vortech? Honestly though I want between 700-800 rwhp and i think maybe with tt it would be easier to get.


Yes I know machs don't come with forged internals but building the motor next so for now I'll run low boost.

It's been very hard saving money so I might just settle for less. Dam this economy lol

[vtec wht]

cough cough TURBO...if you buy and don't like it I'll buy it off you....:ninja:

[error404]

depends on how you want the power I imagine. I imagine a turbo will kick in HP at the top of your RPM, something like a screw superchager will probably give you a broader power, but maybe not as much peak. How you figuring on using those 700-800 rwhp? For street and fun I'd say supercharger, some sort of twinscrew. That said though, I've not had a turbo car, so I can't compare, but I like having the power as soon as I hammer it :-) Twinscrew is kinda expensive though.

[Blanco32v]

Twinscrew/roots!

[BISKIT]

Turbo all the way. That is a no-brainer, but with that said, who's kit is it?

[t76mach]

Beats me lol

this is the kit..

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/pts/1564672692.html


His also selling a single turbo kit, would that one also be better then supercharging?

[Killer95Stang]

Turbo all the way. That is a no-brainer, but with that said, who's kit is it?

HP performance.... Greg can make it work...:blurp:

[5litrarag]

If you are gonna install it and want/need it running in a weekend for a reasonable amount of work and money... Blower. Hands down.


If its gonna be retired to weekend toy/money pit status... turbo.



If its ultimate power and efficiency you are after, you wouldnt be asking these questions.

[5litrarag]

Beats me lol

this is the kit..

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/pts/1564672692.html


His also selling a single turbo kit, would that one also be better then supercharging?

I just looked at that ad and you are insane if you'd be willing to consider handing over that kind of money for a bunch parts that look like that.

Plsu you'd have to buy a k member and a bunch of other shit.... Pass. :no:

[BISKIT]

Beats me lol

this is the kit..

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/pts/1564672692.html


His also selling a single turbo kit, would that one also be better then supercharging?

I could go on for pages on the ups and downs of both.

I know Kevin means well but that ideology went out the window a while back.

There are numerous turbo companies that make kits that are just as much bolt-on and go as the various supercharger kits available.

We have done quite a few of both so I am well aware of the ups and downs of both solutions, in fact we assisted Hellion in developing their Mach kit a couple of years back and worked with STS on development of their twin 05+ kit.

Now from the looks of it (the ad link you posted) there is still some considerable coin to be spent on that twin kit to make it work on your car and I am always leary of used kits (supercharger or turbo) as you are SOL on warranty and you don't know if all the parts are good and there until you start putting em on the car.

The one major issue regarding supercharging vs turbocharging for your car (if this is important to you at all) is the smog legality as the only legal kit is for 05+ GT's from turbonetics.

[1218shelby]

just get a Novi..

[t76mach]

Well I'm off Tuesday so if I don't go turbo I'm visiting sinergy... But I am gonna check out the tt tonight see if it looks better in person

[Greg@RET]

Thats really cheap... I would say add $500 to get everything re coated and make sure the turbo seals are good. If it includes the intake tb etc... thats a steal. Dont forget to get a scavenge pump also.

HP fitment is fun to say the least, and the quality is ok... but every single one makes power. If it were me I would be all over it... we have 2 customers cars here with the kit, and my hot side is the HP stuff.

Heres a teaser for you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shHjJJ_H5pA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlCI9CVPqjY

The one we just finished up..
http://www.lamustangclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2380

[t76mach]

just get a Novi..

I want something fast though :p

[Nicksbluestang]

I'm undecided what to get, I found a tt setup on cl for 3,500 dunno if it's any good or what. Or just stick with a vortech? Honestly though I want between 700-800 rwhp and i think maybe with tt it would be easier to get.


Yes I know machs don't come with forged internals but building the motor next so for now I'll run low boost.

It's been very hard saving money so I might just settle for less. Dam this economy lol

Save your money and stop wasting it on your car is my suggestion...

[5litrarag]

I could go on for pages on the ups and downs of both.

I know Kevin means well but that ideology went out the window a while back.

There are numerous turbo companies that make kits that are just as much bolt-on and go as the various supercharger kits available.


So you could for sure open the box on friday, put it on with everything fitting perfect and have it running (untuned of course) by Sunday night....?

Because that is generally the case with EVERY blower kit out there.

[5litrarag]

hahaha I just noticed something in this thread....

Everyone who has a power adder right now says to get whatever they have (i.e. I said blower, Mark says turbo) which should be expected. But of those that have neither at this point, the one who said blower is a driven daily car and my boy Danny has a total of maybe 1000 mi. in the last 3 yrs on his 95. :laugh: The two turbo guys who checked in here (Greg and Mark) look at the uses of their cars... Greg's is a full on racecar and Marks is the shop show/moneypit car.
Also, if you notice Greg didn't say I was wrong in my assessment and the customers' car he just finished basically proves what I said regarding start-to-finish timeframes.
Read through that thread Greg linked and pay particularly close attention to what the primary use of CobraMac's car will be.

Not saying turbo is bad idea, I just dont think its right for what he is trying to do.

[Killer281Saleen]

Anything but a crapy sts twin kit!!! Saw a 2010 crapmero with sts twin kit running 8.70 all night long jajajjajaja with some type of dr's out back...

[OttoCobra]

I love my Roots blower on my '01 Cobra motor.

Mach-1s have all the similar issues such as "unforged rod/pistons" as us 01 & 99 Cobra engine owners have.

[Greg@RET]

Twinbulitt is a daily driver :aaron: Wheres the you tube link of me going down downey ave. popping the shoot Hhahahahaha

[Killer95Stang]

Twinbulitt is a daily driver :aaron: Wheres the you tube link of me going down downey ave. popping the shoot Hhahahahaha

Holy crap... I would soil my pants if I saw that!!

[BISKIT]

So you could for sure open the box on friday, put it on with everything fitting perfect and have it running (untuned of course) by Sunday night....?

Because that is generally the case with EVERY blower kit out there.

Kev, gotta tell ya. After installing pretty much every kit under the sun, turbo and s/c, superchargers are not exactly always as plug and play as described and turbos are definately not as non-plug and play.

The adage about turbos used to be true when people were still figuring their shit out but to answer your question rather longwindedly:

Give me a front mount kit like Hellion and I will have it done in 1-2 days. STS kit will be done in a day or less, fired up and good to go.

[BISKIT]

Twinbulitt is a daily driver :aaron: Wheres the you tube link of me going down downey ave. popping the shoot Hhahahahaha

It is in the evidence locker of Downey PD. :angel:

[BISKIT]

hahaha I just noticed something in this thread....

Everyone who has a power adder right now says to get whatever they have (i.e. I said blower, Mark says turbo) which should be expected. But of those that have neither at this point, the one who said blower is a driven daily car and my boy Danny has a total of maybe 1000 mi. in the last 3 yrs on his 95. :laugh: The two turbo guys who checked in here (Greg and Mark) look at the uses of their cars... Greg's is a full on racecar and Marks is the shop show/moneypit car.
Also, if you notice Greg didn't say I was wrong in my assessment and the customers' car he just finished basically proves what I said regarding start-to-finish timeframes.
Read through that thread Greg linked and pay particularly close attention to what the primary use of CobraMac's car will be.

Not saying turbo is bad idea, I just dont think its right for what he is trying to do.

Whoah there turbo (pun intended.)

Greg's car is a purpose built track/race car with no intention of ever being a street car and Twisted is practically daily driven between LA and Corona with no issues for nearly 2 years now. The only reason the car sat in the shop for so long (and is going to again) is because of the extensive body modifications that we are re-doing, but that is purely cosmetic. Mechanically the car is tip-top.

Care to take another gander at that summation?

I recommend turbo's to THIS person in THIS case not because I have one, but because I have installed and driven every option under the sun for a Mustang and my conclusion is simply there is no forced induction application that is as efficient as a turbocharger (and that is not even up for debate), furthermore with the advancements in technology regarding turbos, most all of the stigmas and issues of turbos (other than the initial price) are pretty much a thing of the past.
There is good reason even the OE manufacturers are now putting turbos on everything from their econoboxes to their speed demons and I will say this, the days of a factory supercharged Mustang are drawing to a close. Mark my words...

[grumps91GT]

Honestly for a 700-800 rwhp, you are looking to tear into your engine and forge the rest of the internals.

For daily street/strip use, I'd say blower (either one: centri or roots)

Turbos are awesome for getting to the high hp range and pumping out gobbs of boost, but where are you going to put that?? Can't really do it on the street. At the track, you better also invest on some serious suspension to keep you car in check.

[Greg@RET]

If you get a blower get a twin screw.

[BISKIT]

Honestly for a 700-800 rwhp, you are looking to tear into your engine and forge the rest of the internals.

For daily street/strip use, I'd say blower (either one: centri or roots)

Turbos are awesome for getting to the high hp range and pumping out gobbs of boost, but where are you going to put that?? Can't really do it on the street. At the track, you better also invest on some serious suspension to keep you car in check.

Again, where do people get the idea that turbos are only for high horsepower/high RPM power only???

I don't get it.

Yeah, if that is what you are going for, toss a pair of 57+mm on there and great, you got Mad Torque (hint hint), but going with a smaller or a pair of smaller turbos will give you the low end grunt and maintain.

Geez. I really need to give a couple of yall a ride sometimes, and this one aint even really all that powerful...

yet.

[BISKIT]

If you get a blower get a twin screw.

Where was that line when you were recommending a blower to Jaime?

[Greg@RET]

Out of his price range at that time.

[BISKIT]

Out of his price range at that time.

Ah. I see now.

[5litrarag]

Whoah there turbo (pun intended.)

Greg's car is a purpose built track/race car with no intention of ever being a street car

Which is also what I said.

and Twisted is practically daily driven between LA and Corona with no issues for nearly 2 years now. The only reason the car sat in the shop for so long (and is going to again) is because of the extensive body modifications that we are re-doing, but that is purely cosmetic. Mechanically the car is tip-top.

Wasn't really speaking towards the fact of how long it took for yours to get "done" because i dont think it fairly represents what would happen on a customer car. When I was talking about daily driver status, I was talking about CobraMac's car. He said it was gonna be a weekend car now.

Care to take another gander at that summation?

Nah not really needed... I feel like I summed it up fairly accurately.



I recommend turbo's to THIS person in THIS case not because I have one,

Sure thats why... its a natural reaction for car guys when questions like this come up.
I'll say thats why I said what I said since its what I have experience with and while being truly unbiased because I have seen enough examples of both cases and mainly because I'm not trying to sell anything to anybody (not that there is anything wrong with that either).


there is no forced induction application that is as efficient as a turbocharger (and that is not even up for debate),

I also said that in my first reply here. But that alone doesn't make it best for a street car.


furthermore with the advancements in technology regarding turbos, most all of the stigmas and issues of turbos (other than the initial price) are pretty much a thing of the past.

What about the well known stigmas of shitty lead times from the kit manufacturers?
They can't beat the supercharger kits in that regard, thats for sure.



the days of a factory supercharged Mustang are drawing to a close. Mark my words...

Yeah kinda like that twin turbo GT500 that was supposed to happen, right? Or the Ecoboost V6 version that was speculated for 2010-11. Everyone seemed just SO sure the V6 was gonna be turbocharged because it was finally cracking the 300 hp mark.
I agree its probable that there may not be many more supercharged Mustangs on the horizon, but I seriously doubt there will be a turbo GT (or GT500) version either. And if it does happen by some stroke of luck, those that say they want them, better line their asses up with their checkbook because like the SHO it wont be around long.

So I stand by my claim.
Want it done now in the least expensive way, Blower.
Want it in a few months and go for the big kill, Turbo.


But back to the question.....
With the original poster's level of experience with modifying these cars (which I think is illustrated well by the amount of power he says he wants) and not fully informed about the investment of time, money and work ahead, I'd have to say that a blower is his best bet. With a little work 450 rwhp is very attainable for a bit over 6k (which is a serious amount of money in itself) and if more is needed, then its time to step up to something bigger.

[BISKIT]

Sure thats why... its a natural reaction for car guys when questions like this come up.
I'll say thats why I said what I said since its what I have experience with and while being truly unbiased because I have seen enough examples of both cases and mainly because I'm not trying to sell anything to anybody (not that there is anything wrong with that either).

A make more on a supercharger than on a turbo not to mention that I have already priced out a supercharger for the OP and he has already all but put money on the table prior to posting this thread, so the "trying to sell someone on something" line goes out the window. My opinion is from experience and most folks here know that I would rather make less money on something but make sure that the customer ends up with what they need. Makes for poor business strategy in the short run but some folks appreciate the unbiased opinion.




What about the well known stigmas of shitty lead times from the kit manufacturers?
They can't beat the supercharger kits in that regard, thats for sure.


You might want to make sure you check your facts on that one. Hellion and STS ship the day you order them. Not even Paxton/Vortech/Procharger can make that claim. 4-5 days to over a week on their end to just piece a kit together.




Yeah kinda like that twin turbo GT500 that was supposed to happen, right? Or the Ecoboost V6 version that was speculated for 2010-11. Everyone seemed just SO sure the V6 was gonna be turbocharged because it was finally cracking the 300 hp mark.
I agree its probable that there may not be many more supercharged Mustangs on the horizon, but I seriously doubt there will be a turbo GT (or GT500) version either. And if it does happen by some stroke of luck, those that say they want them, better line their asses up with their checkbook because like the SHO it wont be around long.

Well seeing as how Ford has all but axed every supercharged car in their lineup minus the GT-500 (which is going the way of the dodo between now and 2014), again, I stand by my claim. That, and the fact that the Ford Engineers and Marketing guys told us straight out that by 2013 90% of the fleet will be powered by a variant of ecoboost.
The GT-500's engine is still to be confirmed. It is a 5.4 S/C but if it is the old engine, that further goes to prove that that ain't gonna last as there is no way Ford is going to keep the modular alive for one singular limited run niche car. They have something else up their sleave.
The SHO ain't going anywhere as it is not a niche engine that is going in it, but the standard. From half the Lincolns through the F-150, Edge, etc, that 3.5TT engine will be/is already going in most of Fomoco's fleet, so it doesn't take much for Ford to keep that car going.

As far as the V6 goes who said that the sixer would be turbo'd? I sure didn't. The NA Duratec was plenty to get it where it is now and Ford would have been stupid to put an ecoboost into a Mustang and hurt GT sales.

Dodge and GM both are announcing turbocharged applications (and as a result playing catchup) as even they have realized that efficiency and power on either end of the spectrum will only come from this combo and CAFE is looming.



So I stand by my claim.
Want it done now in the least expensive way, Blower.
Want it in a few months and go for the big kill, Turbo.


If you want to keep waiving that flag, so be it, but you are a smart guy, you might want to reexamine your points as that argument has been losing steam for quite a while.

[1EVLPNY]

If you get a blower get a twin screw.

This man knows. :D Twin screw > Centri

[1218shelby]

This man knows. :D Twin screw > Centri



lets race and find out.. :evil:

[t76mach]

But back to the question.....
With the original poster's level of experience with modifying these cars (which I think is illustrated well by the amount of power he says he wants) and not fully informed about the investment of time, money and work ahead, I'd have to say that a blower is his best bet. With a little work 450 rwhp is very attainable for a bit over 6k (which is a serious amount of money in itself) and if more is needed, then its time to step up to something bigger.

My last car I had for drag racing had 900 to the wheels and took me two years to build. I built the motor,blue printed it and put it together myself. It was a nitrous motor though. I've never had anything supercharged or turbo charged...


I know I have to build the motor with forged internals. Probably go with a 5.3 stroker kit and build it myself. It won't be for a couple of months though so I will run low boost till then.


Thing is I wanted to know if the tt kit was any good. Or if I should just stick with a supercharger I'm calling the guy in a bit and hopefully meeting him tonight to see what's up with the kit..

[1218shelby]

Where was that line when you were recommending a blower to Jaime?


:aaron: he did recommend it.


Out of his price range at that time.




true.. :cheers:

[CobraJoe]

just go with a eaton set-up

[BISKIT]

My last car I had for drag racing had 900 to the wheels and took me two years to build. I built the motor,blue printed it and put it together myself. It was a nitrous motor though. I've never had anything supercharged or turbo charged...


I know I have to build the motor with forged internals. Probably go with a 5.3 stroker kit and build it myself. It won't be for a couple of months though so I will run low boost till then.


Thing is I wanted to know if the tt kit was any good. Or if I should just stick with a supercharger I'm calling the guy in a bit and hopefully meeting him tonight to see what's up with the kit..

In that case I will have to say, stick with the original plan. The twins are great and all but that kit looks well used, and you are looking at about another 2k+ in parts to make it all work.

[BISKIT]

just go with a eaton set-up

With as much as he would spend he might as well buy a new TT setup.

[t76mach]

In that case I will have to say, stick with the original plan. The twins are great and all but that kit looks well used, and you are looking at about another 2k+ in parts to make it all work.

He has a single 80mm turbo kit just for Mach 1 says it's custom and works with thr stock k member. I'm meeting him at 8:30 to check out both systems tonight

[BISKIT]

He has a single 80mm turbo kit just for Mach 1 says it's custom and works with thr stock k member. I'm meeting him at 8:30 to check out both systems tonight

Take it for what it is, but that is WAY too big of a turbo for your application.

You can kiss your lowend goodbye.

[Greg@RET]

Get a twin kit, you will kick yourself later if you dont.

[t76mach]

Again he said he was busy and not till tommorow :( I know I won't be able to put it together for a while but I want it now :) hopefully tommorow he has time and I pick up the twin.

How streetrable will my car be with the twin kit? I drive from long beach to redondo beach to work 5 days a week in stop and go traffic.

[Greg@RET]

Perfect, until you floor it.

[grumps91GT]

Again, where do people get the idea that turbos are only for high horsepower/high RPM power only???

I don't get it.

Yeah, if that is what you are going for, toss a pair of 57+mm on there and great, you got Mad Torque (hint hint), but going with a smaller or a pair of smaller turbos will give you the low end grunt and maintain.

Geez. I really need to give a couple of yall a ride sometimes, and this one aint even really all that powerful...

yet.

I was refering to the fact that the OP wanted high HP, so a big turbo kit on the street is pretty much a no no.

Yes you are right. A smaller turbo set-up would be more than perfect for the street and with the newer turbo technology that is out right now, turbo lag is pretty much a thing of the past.

I've seen Twisted in action. Not in full boost, but the thing moves. No doubt.

[BISKIT]

I was refering to the fact that the OP wanted high HP, so a big turbo kit on the street is pretty much a no no.

Yes you are right. A smaller turbo set-up would be more than perfect for the street and with the newer turbo technology that is out right now, turbo lag is pretty much a thing of the past.

I've seen Twisted in action. Not in full boost, but the thing moves. No doubt.

And since we got her on nicorette, she is now smoke free. LOL

[RedRyder]

Subscribing.

[32VALVR]

If your goal is really 700-800 @the rears, I think you can throw daily driveability away. Also, there is no way you're going to survive that on stock internals. If you really want that kind of muscle build the block and twin turbo it. If you want a really stout and reliable DD, I'd recomend the mods in my sig. You always have the option of 650rwhp with a rod, piston and pulley upgrade.
GL.

[Mizry]

If your goal is really 700-800 @the rears, I think you can throw daily driveability away. Also, there is no way you're going to survive that on stock internals. If you really want that kind of muscle build the block and twin turbo it. If you want a really stout and reliable DD, I'd recomend the mods in my sig. You always have the option of 650rwhp with a rod, piston and pulley upgrade.
GL.

exactly what I was gonna say. but he's gonna need more than a built engine, more like a full built car for 700-800 hp with either a turbo or blower...

Go with a nice KB setup and be done with it.. if you want to go fast and be competivie racing go with a procharger, but if all you care about is fast times and 2.5 reaction times and no actual racing, go turbo...

[Greg@RET]

but if all you care about is fast times and 2.5 reaction times and no actual racing, go turbo...

There are lots of turbo cars that cut great lights, so that makes no sense.

[BISKIT]

exactly what I was gonna say. but he's gonna need more than a built engine, more like a full built car for 700-800 hp with either a turbo or blower...

Go with a nice KB setup and be done with it.. if you want to go fast and be competivie racing go with a procharger, but if all you care about is fast times and 2.5 reaction times and no actual racing, go turbo...

For a KB he would have to do the 03/04 conversion, which in and of itself would be thousands in parts.

Not exactly the most economical.

Add to that the fun he will have the first time the snout starts leaking or even better, the oil "disappears" out of the blower....

KB's are NOT what they used to be.

[RedRyder]

nitrous.

[Mizry]

For a KB he would have to do the 03/04 conversion, which in and of itself would be thousands in parts.

Not exactly the most economical.

Add to that the fun he will have the first time the snout starts leaking or even better, the oil "disappears" out of the blower....

KB's are NOT what they used to be.

economical?? 700-800 hp mod engine... OK ... and then compared that to what a twin turbo setup will cost... snout leaks, ok maybe... So you got KB that can leak, prochargers that can leak, vortec and even paxtons that can leak.. number one turbo failure is seal leaks or related to seal leaks....lose the oil in your kb or procharger and you might trash the blower, lose the oil from your turbo and you possible smoke the engine too, unless you know of some self contained performance turbo....

[t76mach]

Everything is expensive but since I am doing all the labor I will save allot.

3,000 for the twin turbo kit
500 to grt it lookig new
250 for new injectors
200 for the maf



Plus tunning and k member and lower control arms and fuel pump

stroker kits are around 2k and say 300-500 for the machine shop side plus gaskets.


So for under 8k I'll have a beast :)

[5litrarag]

economical?? 700-800 hp mod engine... OK ... and then compared that to what a twin turbo setup will cost... snout leaks, ok maybe... So you got KB that can leak, prochargers that can leak, vortec and even paxtons that can leak.. number one turbo failure is seal leaks or related to seal leaks....lose the oil in your kb or procharger and you might trash the blower, lose the oil from your turbo and you possible smoke the engine too, unless you know of some self contained performance turbo....

And it all comes back to my good ole addage.... sing along if you know the song.....






FAST


RELIABLE


CHEAP



PICK TWO.

---------- Post added 01-25-2010 at 03:30 PM ----------

Everything is expensive but since I am doing all the labor I will save allot.

3,000 for the twin turbo kit
500 to grt it lookig new
250 for new injectors
200 for the maf



Plus tunning and k member and lower control arms and fuel pump

stroker kits are around 2k and say 300-500 for the machine shop side plus gaskets.


So for under 8k I'll have a beast :)


Assuming everything goes right the first time around.
I'm betting you'll go over 12k bucks and 6 months.... and it still wont be done.

[Mizry]

Everything is expensive but since I am doing all the labor I will save allot.

3,000 for the twin turbo kit
500 to grt it lookig new
250 for new injectors
200 for the maf



Plus tunning and k member and lower control arms and fuel pump

stroker kits are around 2k and say 300-500 for the machine shop side plus gaskets.


So for under 8k I'll have a beast :)
sounds good, whatcha gonna do about the trans, rear axle and the chassis....? you might want to make it 1300-1500+ in machine shop or its gonna be a short ride...

[RedRyder]

and the costs keep adding up...

[t76mach]

sounds good, whatcha gonna do about the trans, rear axle and the chassis....? you might want to make it 1300-1500+ in machine shop or its gonna be a short ride...

True I forgot about the trans and rear :/

I can build the rear, either way if the turbo kit is any good I'm going forward with all of it :)

I'll find out tonight if he doesn't lag again if the kit is any good.

[BISKIT]

economical?? 700-800 hp mod engine... OK ... and then compared that to what a twin turbo setup will cost... snout leaks, ok maybe... So you got KB that can leak, prochargers that can leak, vortec and even paxtons that can leak.. number one turbo failure is seal leaks or related to seal leaks....lose the oil in your kb or procharger and you might trash the blower, lose the oil from your turbo and you possible smoke the engine too, unless you know of some self contained performance turbo....

Even in the land of 700-800 HP (as ludicrous as it sounds) there are ways to save some coin.

As far as blowers go, I have installed everything under the sun and serviced everything under the sun and by far the largest number of issues I have had are with KB's with Prochargers following close behind.

Paxton's and Vortech's I rarely have issues with. Turbo's pretty much depend on who they are from.

As far as KB's leaking, can I show you the pics of what happens when one loses it's oil on a car with a brand new built motor and the shards of superheated slag that it shoots down into the combustion chambers when those rotors sieze....
And then of course the phone call by the customer to Jim Bell who let's him know that he will gladly replace the blower but he is SOL on his 8k built (now) paperweight.

Yeah. It aint pretty.

[5litrarag]

Even in the land of 700-800 HP (as ludicrous as it sounds) there are ways to save some coin.


What.. Please enlighten me with that. :laugh:

If nothing else with my current motor build I'm learning that if you save money in one place, you'll be spending that money someplace else and most likely it wil FAR outweigh the so-called "savings".... And mine isnt even a 450 hp project.

[BISKIT]

What.. Please enlighten me with that. :laugh:

If nothing else with my current motor build I'm learning that if you save money in one place, you'll be spending that money someplace else and most likely it wil FAR outweigh the so-called "savings".... And mine isnt even a 450 hp project.


I wasn't talking about a pie in the sky scenario Kev, I was talking specifically about not wasting money on doing a "conversion" to attain what he could attain for a lot less while not sacrificing "fast and reliable".

Spending about 3-6k on parts to convert to being able to use an 03/04 terminator blower doesn't make much sense when you can use the stock Mach manifold or the 99/01 manifold and do single or twins.

OR

Convert to an 8 rib and run more boost off of a blower.

[06silverbullet]

for 7200 my friend had his 03 gt converted to a dohc, with forged internals, m112 he puts out some gnarly hp with an auto at that. its one hell of a car.

[BISKIT]

for 7200 my friend had his 03 gt converted to a dohc, with forged internals, m112 he puts out some gnarly hp with an auto at that. its one hell of a car.

Dare I ask why?

7200 + his car would be just about what it would have cost him to just buy a Terminator...

[t76mach]

Checked out both kits and I'm kind of leaning towards the single. I pmd Greg the reasons I didn't like the dual the guy had "used and IMO abused" so I'm awaiting his response.


Guy selling the kits says he works at a performance shop out in Torrance forgot the name though.

[Greg@RET]

I have ran every combo.... turbo is the way to go. Only other thing I would look at for a drag car would be a Procharger f2r. For a street car a pair of 57mm will kill anything mentioned here. Period If you want to go fast it cost money. No way around it. Being cheap will cost you more in the end.

[06silverbullet]

Dare I ask why?

7200 + his car would be just about what it would have cost him to just buy a Terminator...

yeah but the engine was completely rebuilt and forged. and its his car and thats what he wanted and its one hell of a car...except its a vert

[BISKIT]

yeah but the engine was completely rebuilt and forged. and its his car and thats what he wanted and its one hell of a car...except its a vert

Um... Terminator engine comes fully forged.


Never mind. Just scratchin my head at your buddy.

[BISKIT]

Checked out both kits and I'm kind of leaning towards the single. I pmd Greg the reasons I didn't like the dual the guy had "used and IMO abused" so I'm awaiting his response.


Guy selling the kits says he works at a performance shop out in Torrance forgot the name though.

Performance shop in Torrance.

That wouldn't happen to be Chicane Sport Tuning?

If it is, that does give me somewhat of a sigh of relief as Joe (The owner) is a standup guy that wouldn't tolerate any knuckleheads working for him.

I still say the single 80 is WAY too much of a blower for your motor to push. (unless your idea is to build a car ONLY for top end)

[RedRyder]

laaaaaaaaaaaaaag BOOST!
redlight.
green light.
laaaaaaaaaaaag BOOST!

[3K-Terminator]

Twin Screw for sure, but I don't know about that whole 800hp thing.
That's a shit ton of power, and with that said forget about driveability. If it was me I'd do 550hp, and that's already a shit ton as well. And do you even have your suspension ready for that kind of power?

[t76mach]

I'm going single turbo 76mm (twin turbo sold) build the motor later and run more boost and whatever I get, I get...

[Nicksbluestang]

Good luck with that one. :eek:
Enjoy your Lag(turbo lag and the lag of getting the car ready to go)

[5litrarag]

You're gonna wish you got a blower....

[BISKIT]

Good luck with that one. :eek:
Enjoy your Lag(turbo lag and the lag of getting the car ready to go)

I gotta agree. We DID a 76mm on a mach when doing the kit with Hellion. The thing was totally balless until it built some boost. It was actually slower than a stock Mach.

Needless to say, the turbo got downsized mighty quick.

[3K-Terminator]

Twin Screw damnit! You're gonna throw away so much money on that damn turbo.

[Mizry]

Do the turbo.. it should run mid 6's in the 1/8 mile with a half mile head start...and it will kill anything on the street as long as they other guy doesnt know your racing him.....

[5litrarag]

:rofl:

[t76mach]

Guy selling the kits works at swansons...

He mentioned Greg a couple of times :/

lol@ people talking about lag, most if not all of you drive slower cars then my car the way it sits now.

Oh ya I messed up I meant 70mm turbo.

[Greg@RET]

I am sure nothing but good things said lol

Keep in mind everyone here with comments about turbos never owned one. It is harder and more time to set up, but worth it in the end.

I wont even bring up my car....
We finished a customer car that had a 3.4 whipple and juice. Best ET was 6.1@112 or 113. First time out 2 weeks ago with the car at 50% of whats in it the car went 6.3@116..... this was with 14# of boost and 3# off the line.

That silver TT car I put up is a daily driver and spanks z06 on the freeway. Whipple Cobras cant do that. Now stop light to stop light racing I have no comment.... sounds like fun. lol

[Mizry]

Oh yea... and you have to relocate your front calipers to the back, I guess all that torque needs alot of rear brake to hold at the line for the minute or two it take to build boost..

[RedRyder]

Guy selling the kits works at swansons...

He mentioned Greg a couple of times :/

lol@ people talking about lag, most if not all of you drive slower cars then my car the way it sits now.

Oh ya I messed up I meant 70mm turbo.

People's comments about lag are based off your mistake. You said 76mm. Now it turns out to be a 70mm unit. That's not too bad. Good luck with your project.

[Greg@RET]

Yep, my car takes a minute to build boost.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL5USC1Pjgw

I see lots of blower modular motors going that fast out here.

[5litrarag]

Guy selling the kits works at swansons...

He mentioned Greg a couple of times :/

lol@ people talking about lag, most if not all of you drive slower cars then my car the way it sits now.

Oh ya I messed up I meant 70mm turbo.

Well most of us aren't talking about wanting a 700 hp street car either.








Oh and just for the record my vert would hammer your stock lil Mach.

[Doc]

If you go turbo don't use the powermaster t-70. use a quality turbo from precision like a 67mm and it will make more power and spool quicker than the powermaster t-70. a turbonetics or precision 67mm will make 700 hp and spool up at 2800 rpm. and that boost will be there till redline, cetrifical blowers only make peak boost at redline. and eatons blowers tend to peak in the midrange and drop off. A race a always starts when your rpm is up anyway, in my opinion a turbo works great, traction is good , power is strong till redline, quiet exhaust (sleeper) and with slicks and a 3500 rpm launch there is boost from the get-go.

for street driving there is nothing like a eaton or twinscrew tho. like when you need to pass and you can just floor it in whatever gear your in.

700 rwhp is not practical for the street. you just can't use it because your going to fast before you know it. I would aim for 550 rwhp, you'll still kill 98% of everything on the road and enjoy the car. There is a point a car just scares you.

[RedRyder]

Bigger hp # = bigger pee pee

[Nicksbluestang]

Guy selling the kits works at swansons...

He mentioned Greg a couple of times :/

lol@ people talking about lag, most if not all of you drive slower cars then my car the way it sits now.

Oh ya I messed up I meant 70mm turbo.

Swanson...nuff said.
That turbo will probably get you to like 700rwhp but only for about 10 seconds and then your motor will blow. :look:

Care to race my "stock" slow 3v and see if your car is faster than mine the way it sits?

70mm..i still made this face :eek:

[Her name is Ponie]

I'll race the mach

[t76mach]

I'll race the mach

Turbo,k-member, lower control arms will be here next week :ani:

I'm still undecided though on what injectors to get.

I am thinking of selling a snap on krl tool box I have that I don't use to speed up things and just stroke the motor to a 5.0 and lower the compression and run higher boost.

Just say if you see me at irwindale the car has all of the above if I'm racing and then we can race :)

[Mizry]

Turbo,k-member, lower control arms will be here next week :ani:

I'm still undecided though on what injectors to get.

I am thinking of selling a snap on krl tool box I have that I don't use to speed up things and just stroke the motor to a 5.0 and lower the compression and run higher boost.

Just say if you see me at irwindale the car has all of the above if I'm racing and then we can race :)

injectors for what your planning need to be pretty big.. 60's may work for street duty on low boost but Im pretty sure it will need more for the big power, I think there are some 70's that work with stock ford eec....

whats the model number on the tool box????

[Greg@RET]

If you dont have a auto make sure you get a 2 step.

[t76mach]

injectors for what your planning need to be pretty big.. 60's may work for street duty on low boost but Im pretty sure it will need more for the big power, I think there are some 70's that work with stock ford eec....

whats the model number on the tool box????

It's red krl722

[Greg@RET]

For the stock motor Cobra inj. When you build it 60's unless you want to make over 850-900 then 80's.

[Doc]

don't forget your fuel system, pump, lines, rails and regulator. you made the best choice, what turbo are you going with?

[Greg@RET]

I agree.... when you build it go return and forget all the returnless stuff.

[1218shelby]

Yep, my car takes a minute to build boost.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL5USC1Pjgw

I see lots of blower modular motors going that fast out here.



show off.. :angel:

[t76mach]

Stuff gets here Thursday :) I still need injectors, thinking of going with 60s but dunno where to get fuel rails from??

Also I'm doing the bottom end at the same time, now here's the thing should I stick with the stock stroke or go 5.0? I see a really nice Manley piston with rods and rings kit for $1400 (I reuse my crank) all the stroker kits I can find use no brand stuff.

Also what c/r should I run? Probably gonna run 15-18lbs of boost.

I put 2,500 away when I got the turbo kit and my girl is pissed thinks I spent it all on the turbo kit. I knew she would grt mad when I got thr turbo so I put more away for the motor, I don't want to end up single lol

[BISKIT]

If 2500 is all you have for a motor, keep tucking away those pennies, especially when it comes to a 4v.

When building a motor for power AND wanting to keep it reliable and streetable, your shortblock/engine is the last place you want to be holding up the funds.

And if we are all tossing our dicks on the table, I will be glad to toss a certain silver gt in the mix that not only makes more power than any of the cars listed here but has the best power to weight ratio of ANY car ever to grace the pages of LAMC and races regularly.

Most of you know whom I am talking about.

Sorry. I am with Miz on this one.
Iggster, you yourself have stated that you have never owned/driven a boosted car let alone one with the HP numbers you are talking about.

1, Hate to say it, but if you think the bill ends here, you are in for a rude awakening.

2, You can not fight physics. If you don't know what a/r, compressor housing means, turbine material/design effect has, etc, you need to study up on turbos. People here are not talking shit for the sake of talking shit, a few of us actually have a bit of knowledge about the subject and a few of us have actually built/own(ed)/drive turbo cars. I got two on the back of mine that IS a daily driven car and no offense, but wouldn't even break a sweat with your Mach as it was eating em stock for lunch.
(see pic)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/BISKIT2000/IMG_4309.jpg

3, I know you do your own wrenching to a degree but unless stated otherwise, I doubt you do your own machinework/engine building. Like I said, don't cheap out. You WILL regret it.

Trust me. It is a lot easier to be humble and learn now than have to eat your words later. Everyone here is willing to help and even though some folks talk out of their ass, there is some good info to be had.
If you didn't know, Brian (Miz) is someone that makes his living working on these cars, has built more than his fair share, knows the 1320 on a first name bases and has be known to be behind the wheel of one or two cars that redefine the term "sleeper".
Just sayin...

[RedRyder]

Like I stated earlier, a lot of people get caught up in the numbers game. they see others on the net making big power and want some of the attention too. Probably NOT in iggster's case, just sayin' in general. These people with very high powered "daily drivers" will usually only post the good side and not the negative that comes with a car with very high HP. Poor gas mileage is usually the least of their worries. These issues may be tolerable in a weekend toy, but a daily driver- I dunno man.

[96GTS]

Stuff gets here Thursday :) I still need injectors, thinking of going with 60s but dunno where to get fuel rails from??
I have some Sean Hyland (back when SHM was the only/best game for mod motors) billet fuel rails for the 99/01/Mach1 intake. They have fittings and the crossover line installed already. I'll let them go cheap, since I wont be using them on my new setup. Also have a billet fuel pressure regulator if your interested. I'll dig it out later today and get pics....

[t76mach]

Post pics and then pm me a price :) thanks

[t76mach]

I have a friend who has a machine shop says he will do all the machine work free.

Rods,pistons,rings
$1500
bearings about
$100
fel pro gasket kit
$400

I will do all the labor. Here's a link to the kit I want to use

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330296293312&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT#ht_4599wt_722

[Greg@RET]

Yep, my car takes a minute to build boost.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL5USC1Pjgw

I see lots of blower modular motors going that fast out here.

Bump on 2 minutes spooling up :angel:

[BISKIT]

I have a friend who has a machine shop says he will do all the machine work free.

Rods,pistons,rings
$1500
bearings about
$100
fel pro gasket kit
$400

I will do all the labor. Here's a link to the kit I want to use

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330296293312&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT#ht_4599wt_722

What about your heads?

[RedRyder]

Bump on 2 minutes spooling up :angel:

cuz your car is a daily driver...

[Greg@RET]

This one is and spools up just as quick on the 2 step.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shHjJJ_H5pA

[RedRyder]

much better comparison. shoulda posted this vid first, showoff. :asswave:

[32VALVR]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330296293312&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT#ht_4599wt_722[/QUOTE]

You're not going to actually go with the low compression in this kit? If you do you'll be absolutely gutless till the boost kicks in.

[t76mach]

I read your post and was thinking, what is he talking about lol posted the wrong link, going with 9.0 compression kit they have.

[96GTS]

Post pics and then pm me a price :) thanks
PM sent...

[t76mach]

96gts sorry I've been busy (work two jobs) I have wensday Thursday off let me know what days your free. (through pm)

got the kit,bap,60lb injectors,k member etc etc just waiting on the rods and pistons to come in and I'm having modern muscle setup the maf.

I dunno what kind of horsepower I'm getting but anything over 600rwhp I'll be real happy

70mm turbo @18# and 9:0 compression,ported heads (heads where done a while back)



http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh34/iggster1986/eec4bd71.jpg

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh34/iggster1986/2db5de11.jpg

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh34/iggster1986/a955563c.jpg


http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh34/iggster1986/ea9fd6cb.jpg

[96GTS]

PM sent...

[t76mach]

Been so busy with work I haven't been able to do anything.

So tommorow I start my vacation and I start the build :) here's some pics

only thing I need now is the mass air flange and pigtail for the maf. Greg is getting me the stuff (not really just boughtit from modern muscle and shipping to him) and his dyno tuning it.

I'm gonna run 9-10 psi then later go for 18-20 :)

[Enorbit3]

i dont see any pics

[Nicksbluestang]

Great pics!
Looks like a killer Turbo set up.

[t76mach]

K member in and oil pan tapped and some of the hot side.


http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh34/iggster1986/e94b5877.jpg

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh34/iggster1986/36976458.jpg

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh34/iggster1986/ca5e3735.jpg

[superslothguy]

boost a stock 2v be done to get ur goal thread over!

---------- Post added 03-11-2010 at 07:56 AM ----------

love ur new k member and a arms i just did mine and it really cleans the car up underneath congrats man

[t76mach]

Couple more pics (still uploading so it will be a minute or so)



http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh34/iggster1986/b60a6239.jpg

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh34/iggster1986/347c2790.jpg

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh34/iggster1986/d6f23c4f.jpg

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh34/iggster1986/8adeccc2.jpg


http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh34/iggster1986/0b0b5bef.jpg


http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh34/iggster1986/df3ef432.jpg


http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh34/iggster1986/994b092c.jpg



http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh34/iggster1986/36347de0.jpg

[Killer281Saleen]

eBay turbo?

[96GTS]

How did your pass side valve cover get so beat up?

[t76mach]

Yes eBay kit from on3performance I'm helping on3 with anything that is needed to make his kit fit mach1s

it's not beat up just full of water sports which come off easy. (other day coming back from work when it was raining about a month back the 710 was flooded and me and other cars
didn't know till the last second so I just gunned it and went through it.

[96GTS]

ahh, gotcha. On this monitor, it looked all pitted. Just curious how one would go about messing up just the valve cover so bad haha..

[t76mach]

got the oil pan tapped and tighting up everything just need to get the maf wired up and a flange on the intake tube and its good to go :)

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh34/iggster1986/50b0b86f.jpg

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh34/iggster1986/4ac23ba4.jpg

[Mizry]

for some reason I thought you were gonna build the short block along with the turbo install...your prices for the built engine go way out the window if you grenade the stock short block.. becarefull with it.....

[5litrarag]

Yes eBay kit from on3performance I'm helping on3 with anything that is needed to make his kit fit mach1s




That doesnt sound like the makings of a "plug-n-play over a weekend" turbo kit.


I dunno....

[Martini]

That doesnt sound like the makings of a "plug-n-play over a weekend" turbo kit.


I dunno....

plug and play over the weekend and turbo should never be in the same sentence.

[Enorbit3]

plug and play over the weekend and turbo should never be in the same sentence.

quality turbo kits go in an about a days time. maybe 2 if ur lazy.

[Martini]

quality turbo kits go in an about a days time. maybe 2 if ur lazy.

going in isn't the problem, getting them to work is different. no one should ever go into a turbo build/kit thinking they're gonna be driving tearing up the asphalt by monday.

[5litrarag]

plug and play over the weekend and turbo should never be in the same sentence.

In my world it never is. (Reference my previous posts early on in this thread)


In fact it rarely even makes it in the same month. (start to finish and running correctly that is)

[Enorbit3]

going in isn't the problem, getting them to work is different. no one should ever go into a turbo build/kit thinking they're gonna be driving tearing up the asphalt by monday.

again, quality of the shelf turbo kits dont have the problems associated with DIY kits. get any HP, hellion, or off the shelf kit and ur good to go.

[96GTS]

Maybe it's just the angle, but that giant crossover pipe running under the trans would make me nervous as shit. My LTs were scraped to shit and they didnt hang that low...

[t76mach]

took me 3 hours to do the coil over,k member (going full speed)

Worked on it friday for about 6 hours, did injectors, and all the hot side and cold side just needed to mount the turbo and do the drain back tap. that took about 2 hours.

turbo install I worked on it slowly and took my time to get everything right and safe.


ya some pipes are pretty low ill just have to be a bit more carefull but it isnt that low (the crossover pipe)

The pipe which has always been low was the x pipe and still is :(

[t76mach]

took the car to Greg on wensday and his been fixing a couple of things on the car for me says its running good now :) his gonna dyno it tommorow so hopefully he can record it and post a vid :)

[Greg@RET]

Yeah longest part was getting the right flange for the maf. I got her started and running good on Friday. I will tune it tomorrow....

[Greg@RET]

Car is on the dyno, need to make one more pull to clean up the a/f. Currently its at 458/440 on 10#

[t76mach]

So after putting dr's on it, it really started to bog off the line so I had to get two step :) put it on after work and miracle they let me do it at work :) took me a little under an hour to wire up and all :)

Currently launching at 3000 with no spinning gonna try a higher rpm manana

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh34/iggster1986/571d95d1.jpg


http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh34/iggster1986/d61a6edc.jpg

[Enorbit3]

lookin good.

[06silverbullet]

cool stuff

[Greg@RET]

That will work.... how much boost you seeing on the 2 step now?

[t76mach]

at 3000 rpm the gauge reads about 3 psi but I dont think my gauge is accurate I dont think I ever see it go above 5 psi. I dunno though not really sure cause I dont pay attention to it lol. When you tuned it was it working?

[Komrad]

hellion twin turbo.